Questions
2. If you believe there should be one flat rate charge, on what do you think that should be based and what do you think it should be?
If you believe there should be one flat rate charge, on what do you think that should be based and what do you think it should be?
As previously stated, the fairest for all parties Would be a Scenario based system.
3. Vehicles removed on police instructions must be released to their owner on payment of any prescribed charge. If no charge is prescribed, they must be released on demand free of charge. Do you think there are any types of police ordered removal for which no charge should be prescribed?
Please select one item
Radio button:
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Yes
Radio button:
Ticked
No
4. Under the Scottish Government’s proposals, as set out in ANNEX E, the regulations would prescribe different charges for different vehicle categories and incident scenarios. Do you agree with the current categories and scenarios?
Please select one item
Radio button:
Ticked
Yes
Radio button:
Unticked
No
If not, what factors do you think should be taken into account in deciding those scenarios (e.g., type of vehicle to be removed, vehicle condition, vehicle position including whether or not upright, geographical location, nature and state of any load; whether a fatal accident has occurred)?
Perhaps this approach is not ideal for everyone, however this is a proven method used in England and in the main works well. It is however important to emphasise the matrix used in England has not been subject to any form of review and therefor the rates charged are the same today as they were in 2008 when it was introduced. Had it seen at the very least a 3% annual increase the rate today would be £201.59. The SPA proposals must attract an annual review, both for its charge out rate and its operating performance. It’s also important to consider when the Scenario charging was rejected in Scotland back in 2011 it was working on a rate of £150.00 basic charge (as was in England at the time) If this was subject to review it would have been £163.91 The SPA proposed rate should be £202.00 and not the proposed £190.00
5. The Scottish Government’s proposals, as set out in ANNEX E, include allowing for more to be changed for a recovery of a vehicle that is not upright or is “significantly damaged”. Do you agree with this approach, and with the Scottish Government’s definition of “significant damage”?
Please select one item
Radio button:
Ticked
Yes
Radio button:
Unticked
No
If not, what alternative approach would you suggest?
If dealing with a fatality then other factors should be considered, mainly the considerable time the operator has to spent at scene, so an hourly charge should be factored in. Also, there are times where a vehicle might be off road by some considerable distance, these cases should again factor an allowance for additional time spent dealing with the incident.
It is often the case that different displaced loads have to be dealt with in different ways, for example Refrigerated Truck on its side with Swinging or Hanging Beef, a very expensive load and something that requires considerable care and effort to ensure the load is still fit for human consumption once the job is finished. A second example, a Milk Tanker with its load spilling into the water table, a huge problem for the water board and public health authorities, the cost to contain the load is very expensive and a cost re-charging arrangement is required.
The list is endless, and the statute must allow for the operator to negotiate these very special and avoidable charges, no matter who eventually payes the bill.
The SPA Description of Significant Damage appears reasonable.
It is often the case that different displaced loads have to be dealt with in different ways, for example Refrigerated Truck on its side with Swinging or Hanging Beef, a very expensive load and something that requires considerable care and effort to ensure the load is still fit for human consumption once the job is finished. A second example, a Milk Tanker with its load spilling into the water table, a huge problem for the water board and public health authorities, the cost to contain the load is very expensive and a cost re-charging arrangement is required.
The list is endless, and the statute must allow for the operator to negotiate these very special and avoidable charges, no matter who eventually payes the bill.
The SPA Description of Significant Damage appears reasonable.
6. If you do not agree with the charges suggested by the Scottish Government, what charges would you suggest and on what would you base these?
If you do not agree with the charges suggested by the Scottish Government, what charges would you suggest and on what would you base these?
We have an in-depth scenario-based system using the same category selection as your annex E, we have reviewed the matrix against experience within the UK and applied the necessary APR Increases, there is no function to upload a document, we hope you can apply the obvious column index’s or please email a request and we will happily provide this separately.
We have an in depth scenario based system using the same category selection as your annex E, we have reviewed the matrix against experience within the UK and applied the necessary APR Increases, there is no function to upload a document, we hope you can apply the obvious column index’s or please email a request and we will happily provide this separately on the registered email Address.
1 2 3 4 5
£202.00 N/A N/A N/A N/A
£202.00 £335.00 £470.00 £470.00 N/A
£403.00 £873.00 £2,688.00 £4,032.00 N/A
£470.00 £873.00 £4,032.00 £6,048.00 YES
£335.00 £505.00 £1,344.00 £2,016.00 YES
£335.00 £505.00 £2,015.00 £2,687.00 YES
£470.00 £1,142.00 £4,032.00 . £6,048.00 YES
£470.00 £1,142.00 £6,048.00 £8,064.00 YES
Parking & Storage
£14.00 £28.00 £3.00 £41.00 £47.00
We have an in depth scenario based system using the same category selection as your annex E, we have reviewed the matrix against experience within the UK and applied the necessary APR Increases, there is no function to upload a document, we hope you can apply the obvious column index’s or please email a request and we will happily provide this separately on the registered email Address.
1 2 3 4 5
£202.00 N/A N/A N/A N/A
£202.00 £335.00 £470.00 £470.00 N/A
£403.00 £873.00 £2,688.00 £4,032.00 N/A
£470.00 £873.00 £4,032.00 £6,048.00 YES
£335.00 £505.00 £1,344.00 £2,016.00 YES
£335.00 £505.00 £2,015.00 £2,687.00 YES
£470.00 £1,142.00 £4,032.00 . £6,048.00 YES
£470.00 £1,142.00 £6,048.00 £8,064.00 YES
Parking & Storage
£14.00 £28.00 £3.00 £41.00 £47.00
7. If you do not think it practical to identify satisfactorily all the broad scenarios that might be encountered, would you prefer that no charge were prescribed or that there should be a charge “for all other cases”?
Please select one item
Radio button:
Unticked
No charge prescribed
Radio button:
Ticked
Charge "for all other cases"
If the latter, what do you think this should be?
The Scenario charging table should be used for all cases, where the scenarios are impractical, for example an overturned fuel tanker, where the fuel must be pumped off first and very specialist equipment used, a special agreement with the insurer or customer paying the bill should be allowed as part of the statute.
8. Do you think the prescribed charges should take into account the fees recovery operators pay to belong to management schemes, or charges that are not paid, or any special requirements made of operators by the police? Are there other factors to consider, and if so how do you feel they should be reflected in charges?
Are there other factors to consider, and if so how do you feel they should be reflected in charges?
Statutory charges are exactly that, a charge to perform a role as stated by statute, any administration cost borne by the administrator should not be part of the statutory charge. The cost of the managing agent should be kept separate. The admin cost associated to the dispatching process should then be a separate contractual arrangement with the recovery agent, this cost should be capped to stop abuse of the system by the managing agent. The cost associated to the statistical function, a requirement the SPA needs should be paid by the SPA and not the recovery operator. This could be as simple as a set management fee, say £30.00 split 2/3 recovery operator to pay and 1/3 SPA = £20 R/O and £10 SPA.
9. Do you think there any unintended consequences of the Scottish Government’s proposals or other factors not currently taken into account?
Do you think there any unintended consequences of the Scottish Government’s proposals or other factors not currently taken into account?
As the subject of Statutory Charges is now being tackled, it is important the finer detail of the statute is applied properly, this means the correct handling of VAT and the payment of Statutory fees into the SPA fund, and the operator being paid for every job according to specific scenario. The recovery operator should then Invoice the SPA and then be paid directly by the SPA.
10. Should any prescribed charges be increased annually based on inflation (bearing in mind that this will require a Scottish statutory instrument to be prepared each year), or should the regulation be reviewed at specified times such as every 3 or 5 years?
Please select one item
Radio button:
Ticked
Increased annually based on inflation
Radio button:
Unticked
Reviewed at specified times
Should any prescribed charges be increased annually based on inflation (bearing in mind that this will require a Scottish statutory instrument to be prepared each year), or should the regulation be reviewed at specified times such as every 3 or 5 years?
As the subject of Statutory Charges is now being tackled, it is important the finer detail of the statute is applied properly, this means the correct handling of VAT and the payment of Statutory fees into the SPA fund, and the operator being paid for every job according to specific scenario. The recovery operator should then Invoice the SPA and then be paid directly by the SPA.
11. Are there any factors the Scottish Government should take into account to reflect on the experiences of the matrix system that has been operating in England and Wales since 2008?
Please select one item
Radio button:
Ticked
Yes
Radio button:
Unticked
No
Are there any factors the Scottish Government should take into account to reflect on the experiences of the matrix system that has been operating in England and Wales since 2008?
This is a very good point and lessons learnt so the SPA does not fall fowl of the same problems. A distinct lack of knowledge of the police officer dealing with any specific incident. The need for an officer to invoke his powers of removal is abused on a daily basis, the same applies within the SPA and is part of the reason this consultation is necessary. A vehicle removal should only be classed as a statutory removal when the vehicle is of interest to the police, or it is causing an obstruction, possibly in a dangerous place. Outside of this and the removal should be classed as an owner’s request and the owner should be at liberty to find his own recovery operator to carry out the recovery. It is often the case in both England – Wales and Scotland where the owner makes his own arrangements, the recovery vehicle arrives on scene only for the Police to turn them away and unnecessarily use his powers of removal.
Secondly and a point raised answering other questions is review process, England & Wales we promised an annual review, this has never been done correctly and as a result the scenario rates are now ten years out of date and a huge hurdle to overcome bringing them back in line.
Secondly and a point raised answering other questions is review process, England & Wales we promised an annual review, this has never been done correctly and as a result the scenario rates are now ten years out of date and a huge hurdle to overcome bringing them back in line.
About you
What is your name?
Name
Mark Crawley
Are you responding as an individual or an organisation?
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(Required)
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Individual
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Organisation
What is your organisation?
Organisation
The London Association of Recovery Operators (LARO)